Talk:Evil Smasher
Is there a reason ppl refer to this glitch as KSS? 4tran (talk) 15:17, April 2, 2013 (UTC) It says double damage against bandits, but I believe the poster just observed the normal explosive damage bonus. 17:38, November 20, 2012 (UTC)GeneralXIII I just redid most of the page, from the nightmare wall-of-text that it was before. Feedback would be great. 13:07, December 1, 2012 (UTC) Infinity (from main page) The Evil Smasher glitch is particularly useful if infecting the Infinity with the Smasher's effect. If the wielder has an Infinity with a fire rate of 10.4 (The maximum the Infinity can have), the user can fire about 100 rounds in just under 5 seconds. As the Infinity has no reload, stacks are not lost upon reload and Zero's "0ne Sh0t 0ne Kill " skill becomes an incredibly useful asset. Damage per second reaches approximately 5,000,000 if shots hit the target's critical hit locations. --Xx7he455a55inxX Has this thing been patched yet? I'm trying to withhold from downloading the patch in case it has.... I need this gun to farm the invincibles. Yumil Recian (talk) 04:54, January 23, 2013 (UTC) Have the people that have made edits to this page actually used the Evil Smasher glitch properly? Level 5? How about Level 30? Unlikely to get? Maybe if you don't have more than 5 minutes to play this game. Most of this page needs to be blown up and stated a new. I tried it once, but now it's a mess of mis-information. DesertZero (talk) 23:19, January 23, 2013 (UTC) Hey if you want to redo it be my guest. I wrote it based on what I saw, if you saw something else go ahead and edit. I'm getting sick of it anyway because it eats time away from the game. Soma4themass (talk) 01:27, January 24, 2013 (UTC) Personally I only use it against the Invincibles. I don't have the bee or anything, so it evens the odds quite a bit. In regular gameplay, though, it's OP and takes around a minute to bring it up to constant max-tiers using the glitch. Yumil Recian (talk) 02:03, January 24, 2013 (UTC) This is how silly you can get with the Smasher. I've been exploiting this weapon since October. I had to DL a character with modded ammo just to see how high of a tier I was getting. Even then it still wasn't enough to tell. This Shredifier does so much damage so fast to the target dummy that the game doesn't display numbers other than 99999k Here is a picture of my Infinity with the same reload. It's damage was in the tens of millions per shot. There is much more to the Smasher than people know. DesertZero (talk) 02:41, January 30, 2013 (UTC) ....WOW. Normally I only get it up to around an 80/100-size clip with the Infinity, as that's enough to take out most enemies, but you can really get that high? Hoooooly shit. Yumil Recian (talk) 06:35, January 30, 2013 (UTC) Observations Using a level 28 Bowie Widow Maker (Pistol), 11 individual power up levels were observed over a few hours' use: Level | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 Clip Size | 11 | 28 | 45 | 62 | 79 | 96 | 113 | 130 | 147 | 164 | 181 | 198 Damage and in particular Critical Damage increased with each level too, but is less quantifiable. There is a clear increase of 17 rounds per clip per level for this gun. A quick (30 second) test with a 36-Mag Size SMG showed it gained 17 rounds per clip per level (for Levels 1 and 2). A 15-Mag Size Assault Rifle showed the same. For this small sample at least, it seems that each Power Up Level adds a set number of rounds (17 in this case) to ALL of your guns. The increase may vary depending on your specific Evil Smasher (the one used in this test was a Level 25 Wanton Evil Smasher). Regardless, there are at LEAST 11 Power Up levels. I only saw Levels 9 and 10 once each, Levels 8 and 11 four times. The most commonly observed level was Level 5. Due to the rarity of the higher levels, there may well be levels above and beyond 11. To give an example of the power of Level 11, the Pistol was critting on Alpha Skags for 2473 at Level 0; boosted to 1162k (1162000) at Level 11. Awesomeness. CeeJaii (talk) 15:52, February 1, 2013 (UTC) Clips/Level is subjected to magazine size reduction/increase by skills/items. (e.g. Mechro with -9% by Smaller/Lighter/Faster and -22% mag size from class mod gains just 12 shots / level.) Ocinos (talk) 23:17, February 3, 2013 (UTC) How to gain power up levels? What are the proper requirements to actually get increasing levels? Simply shooting in the air / at the target dummy / shoot - reload - shoot with the Smasher does not seem to work. (Stays at level 1) Farmed Bar Brawl 3 for a couple of hours with a smasherified Shotgun but so far I've only seen level 1 and 2 (magazine size increased from 6 to18 or 30 shots) and none beyond that. (PC + current patches) does only the Smasher itself level up? Ocinos (talk) 23:56, February 3, 2013 (UTC) The Evil Smasher doesn't actually level up based on random-chance, it levels up based on how much killing the player has done in the current game-session. The Evil Smasher is, essentially, a weapon that gets stronger the more you use it. Each "level" of the Evil Smasher can be tracked by the increase of exactly 17 ammo that occurs with them. An Infinity with 10 Smasher-levels will have 171-rounds per clip. Levels above 5 CAN NOT BE OBTAINED WITHOUT COMBAT. In addition, levels above 7 are incredibly difficult to obtain without a vast array of murder being committed upon all those who cross your path. Further, the Evil Smasher effect is actually bound to the weapon-slot itself and not the weapon. Switching during the reload moves the effect to another slot and by doing this with the next weapon, it can be replicated to all slots. Switching weapons via picking one up into your current weapon-slot will give the newly acquired weapon the current Smasher-levels that exist on the weapon-slot in use. To give an idea of how much it took to acquire a Smasher-Level-10 weapon, I had to repeatedly kill Pyro Pete 14 times, on top of killing Terramorphous 5 or 6 times, before I saw Smasher-Level-10 even once. In addition, in line with leveling up easier with more kills, once a player has acquired a satisfactory number of kills it is almost impossible for the Evil Smasher(or any weapon sharing the effects) to reach base-stats upon reload. Once level 10 has been obtained, almost every single reload will result in at least Level 2, very rarely Level 1, and usually Level 4 or above. That is how this weapon really works. Rawrkanos (talk) 03:47, February 11, 2013 (UTC) : I don't think this is true; this video http://youtu.be/Q8Iv0_e8WM8?t=8m23s shows an Infinity with a 477 magazine size. (That starts at most of the way through the video; if you start at the beginning, he shows you how to do it by repeatedly firing once then reloading and interrupting the reload to switch to another weapon, without killing anything inbetween. The video was posted on Jan 11, 2013, so it's possible it's changed since then. --Azaram (talk) 04:08, February 11, 2013 (UTC) :: Put simply, that doesn't mean that he hadn't been killing with it before then. Also, the video has a very obvious Black-Screen-Transition between chunks, wherein the weapon he was holding does not change but it does go from 150ish ammo to 450ish ammo. Also, I don't know how to properly reply. Rawrkanos (talk) 04:17, February 11, 2013 (UTC) ::: Add an extra colon for indenting another level. I added one to yours, and this is three. Yes, there is a blackscreen. He mentions that he's doing it, 'I'm going to cut here'. The video is an instructional thing, on how to trigger the glitch, and I don't think he'd have left that out. I've asked him, in any case. Will report back if/when I get an answer. --Azaram (talk) 15:38, February 11, 2013 (UTC) ::::: I figured out the real workings of the Evil Smasher and you're right in that I was wrong about it being based on kills. Rather, it seems to be that the glitch creates copies of the effect-chance so that a player can have it occur multiple times, with no limit to the number of times it can actually trigger. Had to use it exclusively to figure that out, but it makes sense now. The glitch is what allows the multiple tiers. By itself, the Evil Smasher is a sub-standard weapon normally, and a semi-god weapon when powered up. Rawrkanos (talk) 19:20, February 11, 2013 (UTC) I have a level 26 Maliwan sublime Railer that had been 'infected' by it. I found a level 30 Jakobs Skookum Chinook in a chest. It natively had a magazine size of 7. As soon as I picked it up and replaced the railer, the chinook showed a magazine size of 41. I haven't even fired it, let alone reload it. Not sure if it's because they were in the same slot, or the same weapon type, or what, but the new gun inherited the glitch. --Azaram (talk) 06:24, February 22, 2013 (UTC) Gearbox needs to fix this. I'm so tired of everyone using this stupid glitch. I haven't played with other people in weeks because they all cheat through the Invincible fights. It saps the fun out of the game, like any gamebreaker. Am I the only one who feels that way? lavisdragoon *many hearts* 14:14, February 13, 2013 (UTC) : I agree, honestly. I really only use it for the Invincibles so I can get Seraph weapons (I do fight them legitimately when I'm feeling like taking on a challenge), and I don't use it online. : Yumil Recian (talk) 20:21, February 13, 2013 (UTC) :: Yeah, same here. I don't play with other people much in any case, but the few times I have, my level 10 (at the time) just sort of trailed along behind the level 42 as he shredded stuff before I even saw it. I imagine this would be even worse. Personally, I'd kill them legitimately at least once, to prove I could do it, then if I wanted to farm them I might use the glitch but only in my personal one-player game. Kind of like using a god mode cheat, what's the point? It's not a game, then... --Azaram (talk) 06:04, February 14, 2013 (UTC) ::: Azaram, you just summed up all my opinions concerning this gun. ::: Yumil Recian (talk) 06:08, February 14, 2013 (UTC) How the Glitch Works I think I've deciphered how the glitch works. Basically there's nothing like "Power levels", just how many times the powerup triggers at once. The basic Evil Smasher has something like 10% or 20% probability of powering up with a +17 clip size and a percentage of Damage, Fire Rate and Accuracy (thus it's proportional to the current statistics of the weapon). When the weapon is reloaded, the red text effect of "chance of powering up" gets pushed down an effect resolution stack (think Magic the Gathering). However, changing weapons in that time frame makes it so the effect doesn't get removed from the stack, and it starts applying to all weapons. So, each time the player switches to the empty clip Evil Smasher, the effect gets pushed down the stack, the powerup gets a chance to trigger, then the next effect in the stack trigger, etc. and all those effects that should have been removed from the stack get lost in stack limbo, awaiting the next reload to trigger. Thus, each time any weapon is reloaded, the "explosion" effect trigger simultaneously as many times as the powerup takes effect, producing a louder noise and a brief frameskip. Have in mind that all effects are triggering, but that only creates a chance of powering up, that means you need around 50 or 100 stacks to get a consistent x10 powerup, and it will vary (not that at that level you'd need to reload much, though) Manually reloading the evil smasher for this effect doesn't work though, as you need to send many times the powerup to the stack and switching to a weapon that doesn't have its clip empty does not trigger an automatic reload, thus needing to reload manually each time On the personal side, I'd say it's a nifty exploit to facilitate farming, but pretty much uncool and boring for any other purpose. Kebukai (talk) 15:07, February 15, 2013 (UTC) : The fuck? YOU figured it out? Bullshit. I'm the one who figured this shit out. Rawrkanos (talk) 09:47, February 18, 2013 (UTC) :: I don't question that you came before showing the way the glitch is activated, I just say that I think I understand now how the glitch really works internally. Not like it changes anything, it just helps to understand what is going on inside the game. Also it helps to understand this glitch was unintentional and there are no defined levels, the power of the weapon is decided by how many times the powerup effect is triggered at once, and that is at about one in a ten chance for each Evil Slayer effect on the stack (It follows a binomial distribution, like this). That also means that what decides the final power of the weapon is the times you switch while reloading, not how many enemies you've killed or how long you play. :: Thanks for your contribution, but please, don't be jumpy just because someone claims to have figured something out by further investigating something you said. :: Kebukai (talk) 01:23, February 19, 2013 (UTC) : Switching to the inventory seems to remove some of the powerup stacks. I put the Evil Smasher into my inventory, and when I switched back, my sniper rifle had lost some mag size. When I reloaded it shortly thereafter, it exploded and went up to (what I believe was) a higher number. Not sure whether it just wasn't showing it then or what. --Azaram (talk) 04:39, February 27, 2013 (UTC) You Think You Got It? PROVE IT! If any of you is trying to prove you are right, at least make a video of your proof and upload it to youtube for all to see. The body of the page now is a mess, and I'm not touching it because it is just not what I see when I use Evil Smasher. What I see time and time again is that the power up is mostly probablistic. I tried to power up again after some killing and it is STILL probablistic. I'm happy to clean it up, but I (and other contributors I'm sure) need to see proof. I reckon the proof will be linked to directly if it is good. Some factors to remember when making the video: # Target dummy in Sanctuary is a good place to show the damage per shot and fire rate. # Show everything. Do not chop off sections of your video. Fast forward if there are killings to be done outside Sanctuary. You want to show one contiunous session to prove your point. # Skill points and class mods can modify damage and/or clip size on top of Evil Smasher. So please reset all skill points (i.e. do not assign ANY skill points) when showing your proof. And take off your bee or class mod. # Show it on different weapons, not just on infinity, to make clear the +clip size stack. How about showing it on Evil Smasher itself? Crazy that I asked isn't it? # "Talk" to yourself if you want to make a comment in game (or use the youtube captions if you have time). Soma4themass (talk) 00:15, February 17, 2013 (UTC) : I'm having problems trying to set up video capture, but I'll try to have this up as soon as I can. Meanwhile I've set up a spreadsheet where I calculated the theoric probabilities of obtaining a certain number of powerups in relation to how many times the glitch is used and thus the effect is sent to the stack: here. As my theory would be impossible to prove without looking at the game code or doing a long and meticulous statistical calculation by repeating the process of observating how many times a reload triggers a certain number of powerups related to how many times the glitch is triggered, which I'm not up to, I'd just show the simple process of triggering it and showing the relation between glich triggering and powerup augmentation : Kebukai (talk) 01:14, February 18, 2013 (UTC) :: I reckon ballpark figures are fine. Yes you either have to dig through game codes or do serious statistical analysis to get the "real" picture. There is no point to dig too deep since GBX can just patch away the glitch in the next patch and make everything obsolete. Just have fun making the video, and give us some money shots. :: Re: video capture: try FRAPS. :: Soma4themass (talk) 10:00, February 18, 2013 (UTC) :::: Done. Not really a good video, and it really doesn't prove anything but I hope it helps clarify how the glitch works: http://youtu.be/ay7Gko6sfN4 :::: Kebukai (talk) 01:11, February 19, 2013 (UTC) Glitch is simpler than it seems I swear, I've been spreading this for months on the Borderlands General on 4chan, teaching people I come across on xbox who I see doing it improperly and there are still loads of people doing it weird. The glitch is horrifically simple and so are the other gun effect abuse glitches. 1. Equip the Evil Smasher 2. put the Evil Smasher in your hands 3. switch to another weapon(using the directional buttons, hot keys, even just the next weapon button) and quickly switch back 4. wait a moment, once you see the cross hairs appear on screen with the Smasher in your hands, repeat step 3 as much as you feel like. 5. have fun Do not let the other gun's cross hairs appear, that nulls the stack transfer, you do not need to even see the other gun though, so switch as fast as you want when you're at the switching part. Also, as I said, this works the SAME way with other glitches. You can transfer gun voices like the Bane, the Loader shotgun and the Morningstar sniper the same way and cause the INF ammo vladof rocket glitch this way. Any other effects you can transfer this way I don't currently know. Opps, forgot my name Anon8792 (talk) 10:02, March 28, 2013 (UTC) Oh yes, the transfers/infections are also coveralls. You don't do it to specific weapons, once you've done this, ALL guns you use have the stacks/effects, Evil Smasher is just less noticeable since it's all luck(least till you stack hard, then it's luck how high you'll get). If you do more switches, you'll get more likely to Smash/higher Smashes, more ammo back from the INF glitch or hear more voices shouting at you for that insanity effect. So if you don't want you gun exploding everytime you reload/one loot loader buddy/cover ammo usage rather than gen ammo, don't do the switches more than a few times. The Vladof glitch and voices are easier since you get a voice and 1 ammo back for each switch, so two switches mean 2 ammo back for each shot which is useful for Maliwan pistols and double shotguns nulling. Have fun people, also, USE TORGUE, MAKING 100% OF PANDORA EXPLODING WITH THIS INFORMATION Anon8792 (talk) 10:09, March 28, 2013 (UTC) They killed the last way Normally I am not a friend of glitches, exploits and other "Not intended" stuff, but this one was the last way to solo seraph/ raid bosses remaining. It is unfair to force players to team up to get specific items...Some people even have a so weak internet connection, that they may download the DLCs and Patches, but can't join Multiplayer-Mode. It is egoistic to let forced Solo-Players miss out content they paid for too. Patching away the last working way, but not giving an alternative...You gotta hate themLeafless (talk) 06:07, April 2, 2013 (UTC) : So... you're moaning that a game-breaking bug was fixed which prevents players from soloing a boss that provides the only means of acquiring particular items, and these items are necessary... for what exactly? Killing raid bosses? -- WarBlade (talk) 06:35, April 2, 2013 (UTC) :::For having them...Enjoying their special effects...Experimenting...Choose something you like. I don't need the bug for normal game, but an alternative to it for soloing the Raid-Bosses would have been nice, before patching it away. -- Leafless (talk) 10:12, April 2, 2013 (UTC) :::::Oh, but there is one more way to solo raid bosses: try! Instead of whining about the loss of your precious Evil Smasher glitch, which thousands of others did over the Bee patch and then subsequently got the f*ck over it, how about you adapt? Find another way? In a game with "Bazillions of guns" there has to be some combination that will make Raid bosses somewhat easier to solo. Yeah, Evil Smasher made Raid Boss fights like tearing through wet paper, and soloing them normally is like solving a Rubik's Cube blindfolded...BUT IT CAN BE DONE! Get on Youtube, look up some raid boss solo vids, and take notes. Pay attention to what they did. Try it yourself. You may end up finding a better way. :::::In the end, what did we get from this patch? A whole new playthrough full of increased challenge, 11 more levels which implies 11 more skill points which implies infinite more character customization, a new gun rarity which may contain that "Magic Bullet", forgive the pun, that you need to solo raid bosses, increased pack and bank space, more ammo, fixes to several bugged abilities, missions, and equipment, and what did we give up? Being able to kill raid bosses in two seconds. Wah. You get all this amazing stuff and still complain? You're like a spoiled brat who whines when his parents get him a Camaro for his birthday instead of a Porsche. You so desperate for Seraphs? FIND SOMEONE TO DUPE YOU SERAPHS! It's not the end of the world just because we lost the Evil Smasher glitch. The Borderlands community survived The Great Bee Nerf, they can survive The Death of the Smasher Glitch. Accept the loss, get over it, move on. Mech-Romance (talk) 15:52, April 2, 2013 (UTC) :::::PS: This is from a guy who soloed Terry, Pyro Pete, and Hyperius no problem. Still working on Gee, Vermi, and Dex. But I'm getting close. How? Because I try. :::::::Can't join multiplayer-mode...let someone dupe you the weapons...is anyone seeing a problem here? And already soloed Terramorphous, Pete and Gee without glitches or Old-Bee...Leafless (talk) 16:15, April 2, 2013 (UTC) :::::::::For all the added awesomeness Gearbox added with this update, I'm glad to see we're focusing on the important things. I wonder, how many skill combinations 55 total skill points could create? There's no way any of the newly available builds could solo a raid boss. Besides, there's no possible way to solo the great and mighty seraphs. It's just not possible. All those YouTube videos are edited and staged. And all the weapons they use in those videos? They must be modded, cause it's not phisically possible for one player to have legitimately found all those legendaries. :::::::::I'm glad we're not sitting around nitpicking an insignificant change. And for the record, I never used the Evil Smacher Glitch. Or the pre-nerf Bee. And yes, I've solo'ed raids. Grindfest (talk) 17:08, April 2, 2013 (UTC) :::::::::::@Mech whoa, somebody's a self righteous @$(*@&$. Sure, the update has lots of goodies in it; most people will agree. I don't particularly fault gearbox for trying to fix their game, but I really hate steam for forcing this update on everyone. It's mostly a matter of choice - can I update when _I_ want to? First of all, the glitch is _hilarious_. Being able to spam rockets and bullets everywhere is _awesome_. Second of all, the glitch offers a different set of challenges - instead of "can I solo a raid boss?", it becomes "what's the lowest level I can solo a raid boss?" I just pwnd Terramorphous @ level 33, and it was one hell of a ride. That's something I'll never be able to do in my lifetime again. As for the guy farming the raid bosses... he's better off manually adding oranges to his inventory. 4tran (talk) 07:22, April 9, 2013 (UTC) Glitch migrated from mainspace page. 65px|link=User:Fryguy42 11:52, April 2, 2013 (UTC) Used normally, Evil Smasher does not level up beyond Power level 1. However Evil Smasher can glitch to higher Power level. The glitch was patched following the April 2 update patches. Step-by-step Instructions to Power Up Further :1. Empty clip of Evil Smasher completely. :2. As soon as Evil Smasher STARTS to reload, switch away to another weapon, say Infinity. :3. Swap immediately back to Evil Smasher. Repeat swapping away and back as many times as needed to gain Power level. :* Power Up occurs at the BEGINNING of the reload motion. So wait about 0.5 to 1 second into Evil Smasher reload motion. THEN swap away. When swapping back to Evil Smasher there is no need to wait. :* By swapping back and forth, it is forcing the Power Up effects to stack on top of each other. Multiplying the stacking effectively looks like Evil Smasher's characteristic explosion and Power Up sound cue become bigger and louder. :* Multiple stacking of Evil Smasher Power Up will change base Evil Smasher stats according to the following formulas: :* Power Up effects of the Evil Smasher will now apply to the newly swapped weapon, and stacks ON TOP OF the weapon's other properties. ALL weapons in active slots now inherit ALL of the Evil Smasher's special property of Powering Up (e.g. chance to Power Up after reload, with the same explosion and Power Up sound). Continuing the case of Infinity, after Power Up all other properties of Infinity remain (i.e. never consuming ammo, bullet spread looks like infinity symbol). :* The present level of Power level is roughly indicated by the loudness of Power Up sound and size of explosion. The exact level is determined by the size of clip of that other weapon, in this case Infinity. If Infinity magically has 86 clip, then according to formula above, i.e. 86 = 1 + (5 * 17), the Power level is at 5. At this level, for an Infinity with 10k base damage, Power Up damage will be 10k + 5 * ~70k = ~360k. :* The Power level after glitching Evil Smasher this way is unpredictable, not a guaranteed increase. It may takes quite a few repeats to get to a high Power level. :4. To "lock in" a Power level, AFTER seeing explosion and hearing Power Up sound, simply let Evil Smasher complete the normal reload motion, OR swap Evil Smasher away to another weapon and NEVER switch back. :* For the next clip and next clip only, Evil Smasher or any weapon is locked into this Power level. After the clip is finished, the Power level "re roll" and reset because of the reload motion. For an illustration, see http://youtu.be/ay7Gko6sfN4. Power Up stacking is not supposed to happen, since this can make Evil Smasher or any weapon a 1-hit kill weapon for most enemies. However this glitch remains as of game version 1.3.1 Notes *It is not clear if there is a upper limit to Power level. There are reports of 200+ clip size and doing 1 million+ damage per shot. *In gunzerking mode, only the weapon in the right hand gets the benefits of Power Up, while the left-handed gun still has the chance to trigger Power Up with a reload. This is an efficient way to get to Power level 10 or higher. *Power Up applies to all weapons in active slots in the current game session until switching back to Evil Smasher. If Evil Smasher is empty, then Power level "re-roll" and reset. If Evil Smasher is full, then all weapons systemically will depower 1 level. Power Up does not go away even after respawn, fast travel or entering inventory menu. In multiplayer session, the magazine count may reset to base stat after fast travel, still all of Evil Smasher properties remain. *The Fibber seems to have no reaction with the Power Up. Applications *The only way for Gaige to use Infinity with investment in Smaller, Lighter, Faster is to apply the Power Up Stacking glitch onto Infinity. *When combined with the Infinity repeater pistol in the stated manner and The Bee, and due to the dramatic increase to fire rate, the player can kill any of the Invincible foes in a matter of seconds (usually less than five seconds, even on True Vault Hunter Mode). For example, Voracidous the Invincible can be killed before Chief Ngwatu spawns, and Hyperius the Invincible even before his loader minions have time to make it invulnerable. This exploit has, as such, game breaking effects. Also, when using this glitch with Voracidous, he will instantly respawn after going outside of the fighting area, without the need to pay Eridium again or rezone. Again, scroll up a short distance. The method is easier than that and it bugs me when people add rules to things because of superstition. You don't need to fire or reload the weapon, just switch it. But the glitch is gone anyways so I guess it doesn't really matter. Anon8792 (talk) 00:41, April 3, 2013 (UTC)